New Film and Publications Board draft policy

edited in General
This might be quite important to all of us.

Read here:
http://mg.co.za/article/2014-11-27-spectre-of-an-online-content-censor-looms

TLDR: The draft policy, which the Mail & Guardian has seen, requires that, as of March 31 2016, no one will be allowed to distribute digital content in South Africa unless it is classified in terms of the board’s guidelines, or a system accredited by the board, and aligned to its classification guidelines, and the Film and Publications Act and its classifications. The FPB logo must also be prominently displayed.

Now this supposedly applies only to distributors (Steam I guess?) so I'm not sure how it would affect us.

*activates the Nicksignal*

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Comments

  • It will apply to anyone who distributes or exhibits online any film or game and certain publications in South Africa, including online distributors of digital film, games and certain publications, both locally and internationally.
    Seems the tl;dr there is that Steam would have to classify games in line with FPB rules, and display FPB logos on the store pages. But Steam wouldn't do that - it would be up to the publishers on Steam to decide whether the SA market is worth enough to go through the extra effort of clearing FPB regulations.

    More worryingly though is that "distribution" could be equal to "putting a demo on a web page", and that requires a distributor license. That shuts down individual public sharing to a scary degree.
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    @raithza you know @Lexaquillia is quoted in the news article right? I think he's already all over it
  • I was contacted by someone yesterday asking why a developer would actively say that their game wasn't available in South Africa due to rating requirements. I can't remember the name of the game in question, sorry, but the point is that this seems to already be the perception for at least some developers overseas.

    As for trying to pass everything through the FPB? No. I'd sooner stop distributing in SA.
  • dislekcia said:
    As for trying to pass everything through the FPB? No. I'd sooner stop distributing in SA.
    And isn't that just the profound irony of it all. As a South African game developer, the FPB rules would make it easier for you to sell your games exclusively overseas. Absurd.
  • Our game is to games what busking is to music. I'd hate for there to be more stupid red tape piled on top. I guess technically we don't actually distribute in SA anyway.
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    wogan said:
    And isn't that just the profound irony of it all. As a South African game developer, the FPB rules would make it easier for you to sell your games exclusively overseas. Absurd.
    It's been exactly like that with physical distribution in SA forever. Online distribution has only partly been hampered by the FPB - XBLA on SA Live accounts was so empty due to the FPB, Sony ignored them and reaped the rewards with a full PSN store. Steam ignores the FPB too, mostly.
  • I think there is something like this in effect already, I remember something along these lines being cited as the reason the SA app store didn't have a game section.

    I fixed OP:
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  • Is it ignorance, incompetence or just plain economic sabotage at this point? More and more it seems like this kind of legislation is just being put forward to make a quick buck out of a new market and throwing the long-term development of those in the market under the bus. If we're not being hamstrung by blackouts and strikes, there's so much red tape to dig through and more money to pay to someone whose job can, in essence, be fulfilled by a checklist. I hate constantly pointing to Extra Credits, but they keep making good points (sorry not sorry):



    Andrew Ryan had some messed-up ideologies, but the question stands: Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow?
  • @Scratch17: MGSA is in contact with the FPB about this and other issues with their mandate. We've been pushing them for years now, it's a slow process. That's why Nick is referenced in the article in the OP.
  • dislekcia said:
    @Scratch17: MGSA is in contact with the FPB about this and other issues with their mandate. We've been pushing them for years now, it's a slow process. That's why Nick is referenced in the article in the OP.
    I'm relieved to hear it. Nick is Lawyer Jesus. Praise @Lexaquillia
  • I'll add my voice to this.

    I would rather not sell —or have— my company's games, and my personal projects, in my own country than having to deal with this.
  • Here's hoping it's not just a quick buck for the government coffers. The continual echoeing of "we need business to cooperate to to drive this economy" seldom seem to be backed up by actual action.
  • I feel like they don't actually know how games work. I mean who has time for this. I too would rather not sell in SA than go through another unnecessary process. Its the same with the online tax BS..

    The question I have is how will this affect something like itch.io ?
    If someone more knowledgeable than myself would explain that would be super.
  • So there is some good news and some bad new. Good news, under the Policy, "distributors" can self-regulate, meanng provided they get permission and verification from the FPB can self-classify. Technically then MGSA could for example apply to the FPB to get classified as a rater and then rate local games. <div><br></div><div>The bad news is that they are extending their ambit to user created content. Theoretically under the new policy the FPB has the right to classify any content (youtube videos, twitch streams, whatever) that they desire. They then send the owner the bill for the classification and interdict them to remove the content until the classification has been done and uploaded. If international vendors don't assist them, then they want to look at taking "technical measures" to prevent access to those sites. Basically they will "block" youtube, twitch, Steam or who ever doesn't play ball. </div>
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    Great Firewall of South Africa?
  • not ok<div><br></div><div>can we do anything about this?</div>
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    What kind of moron dreamt this crap up?<div><br></div><div>It begins with them having the legal right to have your content taken down, but then it extends to them having the right to not allow content to get rated and go up again. It's a convenient gateway to censorship of anything deemed critical of government.</div>
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  • Is there anything we can do? Not really, unfortunately this forms as part of "policy" (i.e. it's not law) so it isn't up to the usual public participation standards. What we could do is challenge the policy on administrative or constitutional grounds, but someone is going to need to bankroll that.<div><br></div><div>@Rusty yup. </div>
  • What the fuck, that's insanely stupid.
  • The internet usally doesnt take kindly to these sort of regulations. Maybe we could protest. Kinda like SOPA ?<br>
  • Bullcrap, I will never put this stupid logo on my games. This idiots simply forgot that no one owns the internet! This is worse than the e-tolls
  • I will not be bullied by the stupid fpb. It seems like this guys want to own the internet. My suggestion is that we simply ignore them and continue making games as we want!
  • Simply ignoring them is not a feasible solution for companies publishing games. We still operate as South African companies, so have to comply with South African regulations or risk serious consequences.
  • What. the. fuck..
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    @LexAquillia: For those of us who're legal philistines, what's the nuance between policy and law that lets them sneak something this powerful beneath the "public participation standards" you mention? Practical issues of dev and distribution aside, this is a helluva dangerous censorship tool they're proposing, as Rusty said.<br>
  • Not to bang on the doomsday horse, but in case you're not aware, South Africa is becoming a closer economic and cultural ally with China than the west: http://www.iol.co.za/news/politics/zuma-call-china-anti-colonial-force-1.1791561<div><br></div><div>This being the same China after which the great firewall is named. So it's no great surprise that a draft policy like this exists, if you bear in mind who our new bedfellows are.</div>
  • Then we should all go to Silicon Valley
  • <blockquote class="UserQuote"><div class="QuoteAuthor"><a href="/profile/mattbenic" rel="nofollow">mattbenic</a> said:</div><div class="QuoteText"><p>Simply ignoring them is not a feasible solution for companies publishing games. We still operate as South African companies, so have to comply with South African regulations or risk serious consequences.</p></div></blockquote>

    Well as devs we can actually ignore this pretty easily: we just don't see in SA since FBP only governs the distribution of content in SA and not its creation.<div><br></div><div>With digital platforms Steam et al, I'm not too concerned since the wording seems like it would be possible to use PEGI or ESRB ratings, I can VERY likely be wrong here but my interpretation of what I read seems to lean to this.</div><div><br></div><div>Where this completely starts to wig me out is that it can basically reach any content on the internet: any arbitrary YouTube video, twitch stream, deviant art wadeva, a podcast, or pictures I posted to twitter. Again my interpretation of what I've read.</div><div><br></div><div>Now the next logical step is: right you can't police the internet, and that's true. But as long as they're generating a profit I'm pretty sure they are going to try. And I'm really fucking sure that this is just a profit generating thing: we're talking about the FPB here.</div>
  • Steam has already implemented this to a certain extent. Go look at some of the larger AAA titles and if you scroll down you'll see the FPB rating logo.

    @Gazza_N So government is split into three "spheres"; the Legislature, the Executive and the Judiciary. The Legislature (Which is parliament, the people we vote in come election times) makes the law, the Executive (The presidency, the various departments (DTI, Arts and Culture etc) implement the law through the police force and "policy" and the Judiciary (judges) enforce the law (Through the courts by presiding over court cases).

    The Executive can only do what it is empowered to do by legislation (law). So for example in the Films and Publications Board Act it gives the Minister of Communications the power to create policy to implement the law (So the FPB Act says children shouldn't be exposed to r18 content, the minister has the job of writing up the way this will be achieved). Unless the relevant Act says the policy has to go through public participation process, it doesn't (in the case of the FPB Act it doesn't).



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    What we could do is challenge the policy on administrative or constitutional grounds, but someone is going to need to bankroll that. 
    What kind of numbers are we looking at for such an operation? Are there any agencies in the country who would help oppose a bill like this, or an international group like the Electronic Frontier Foundation or something who could pitch in? Is there a way we can raise funds to help fight this thing?

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    @LexAquillia: Thanks much. That clarifies things somewhat. :)
  • @Scratch17 a Constitutional battle will normally cost in the region between R5 million to R10 million. The Freedom of Expression institute would be a good amicus (friend of the court, meaning the also submit arguments) but it is unlikely they would actually fight the case. For now the best bet would be to get a corporate like Microsoft or Naspers to do the fighting, alternatively one could apply to the new shuttleworth trust that was setup to fight constitutional battles
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  • Well now, let's not buy into this article with pitchforks and torches raised just yet.

    The misleading title does not convey the most accurate story here. The bill has been approved for submission. This is still a way off from being signed into law. As much as sensationalism would have you believe this is the start of some totalitarian administration over the information you hold so dear on the internet, I do think there is still room for this bill to be tweaked to better represent the intent. Not to censor but to try and steer inappropriate content away from the incorrect demographics.

    Lets hold out a tiny bit of optimism here that this won't be the black curtain raised around us that people might want you to believe.
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  • I just feel crappy about the FPB trying to police the internet in the first place. Its not their job to protect children from harmful content, it is the job of the child's guardian. And even if it works and people submit their """film""" for review before publishing it on the internet, the people publishing the material that this bill is supposed to counter just wont submit it for review and they will directly publish it. Its like DRM : make life harder for people abiding the law whilst doing nothing to combat the actual problem.

    Can someone point out some positive aspects of this bill ? Cause it just seems like a crap idea in the first place.
  • @Goraan: So can you suggest actions that we could undertake as a group to help make the bill less onerous? I don't think sitting back and being optimistic is a suggestion that sits well with people who look at things like E-tolls and how that happened...

    What makes you feel optimistic and what can individuals do to grow their own optimism?
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    Optimism is passive, I wasn't aware I needed a justification for my emotions.

    If you wish to be active support the efforts of people like @Lexaquillia, support the various other voices opposed to the ambiguity in the bill. Perhaps look for support from opposition parties with enough clout to make a public appeal. Write an angry worded letter. Post an angry tweet

    Edit: Perhaps I should explain my stand a bit better before I have to fend off pitchforks myself. I'm not asking people to be optimistic about the bill specifically, just to not give into the media hype. It won't help anyone to spin their wheels against sensationalist journalism.

    There are many well meaning laws that sound terrifying at first glance. I can understand the intent here, I can understand they would like the content easier to restrict for unintended demographics. I can also see the gaps open for abuse. Every single thing you come across in life has negatives and positives.

    I am aware that humans suffer from emotional biases, and that during times of negativity they tend to focus on the negative aspects of something. Maybe hold out and see what the actual implications are before rushing to assume that this is the end of free content distribution and consumption as we know it. The internet has far surpassed our ability to morally judge its content and perhaps this bill is a little behind the curve, but just because it can be damaging doesn't mean it will be. Daily I operate a device that has the power to murder countless people instantly, I just choose to drive it where intended and not dismember persons in my path.

    As for the argument that content restriction should be the task of the guardian of a child, in the case of child appropriate content. Consider that there are homes, by the thousands, where children have no access to internet. Not because of a lack of infrastructure but because parents forbid it, "There might be porn on them there computernets. ". A child without access to the greatest repository of knowledge known to man, a child without access to a tool that might make them less ignorant than the generation before, because of an uneducated bias. Imagine for a second the parents, with some kind of trust in a system to make choices for them can rely on a higher power to regulate content flow. They feel safe, they feel secure. One more child in the world has access to education they would otherwise not have.

    A shallow example I grant you, but a positive one nonetheless. A little spark of light in a sea of biased negativity over a possible totalitarian future that may never be.
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  • Just to echo what @Gorran has said, this was expected and ultimately a good thing. The policy talked of amendments to the Act, these are the proposed amendments. It'll go before parliament and go through the usual public participation process. Again I'll be submitting comment of MGSAs behalf, once we know the content
  • edited
    @Goraan: You don't have to justify your optimism unless you're trying to get other people to share it. Personally, I would prefer it if the bill didn't grant extremely harmful powers over my ability to publish things online (the sole way I earn money right now) to a demonstrably incompetent body (that's already had large impacts on how I earn money right now) guarded only by vague wording. I think it's reasonable to be concerned about this, especially if that concern is what motivates action. If the bill truly is well-meaning, then it should be perfectly acceptable to change the parts of it that are open to abuse, it's the actions of concerned individuals that will make that possible.

    I'm basing my read not on one cycle of media "hype", but on everything I've read about this bill so far AND the advice of @LexAquillia over the last few months. If it were a great bill that we should all be optimistic about, then @LexAquillia wouldn't be trying to change it... Granted, the change process requires a faith in governmental processes that some might call optimistic, after all @LexAquillia has been working hard to win concessions from the FPB before. I think further optimism is perhaps encouraged by understanding the process that this bill is going to go through, which requires education, not just calls for hope: The majority if us here don't know what the hell is going to happen to this bill or what's expected or even what the next step in its life is. We're just seeing generally incomprehensible stupidity seemingly relentlessly marching forward towards being law.

    P.S. As for the example of controlling parents, the real saving grace for children in situations like that is more that they're not going to be under the sway of parents like that for their entire lives - not that said parents will suddenly have changes of heart. It's not like the FPB has demonstrated amazing abilities to regulate content in the past, nor are dogmatic parents likely to listen to reason in the first place...
  • Cool, thanks :)
    I get that, but isn't the reason the internet is so awesome because it is so open ? Like I can publish something right now about my life, my struggles, my knowledge about a certain thing or just about anything else with the click of a button. What the fpb is trying to do is going to make it more difficult for me to do that. Which might dissuade me from even posting whatever I wanted to post. Which in return makes the internet less of a awesome thing.

    Also if people start visiting only FBP approved sites (this is a big if) they have the ability to shut me down if they are displeased with my content. There will probably be strict guidelines in place that will prevent this but all it takes is a policy change. If for instance they decide people should not visit sites talking about how the earth is actually a octagon with 6 moons and an invisible sun and I have games/"film" about that, then I am fucked.

    I just don't believe they should have the ability to take down or block content in the first place. Its the entire reason I think the internet is so cool.
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